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	<title>Comments on: Israel: A Rogue Nation</title>
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	<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/</link>
	<description>Enjoy worrying in the new year</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Pretty impressive... guess I'll have to change the protection or something</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty impressive&#8230; guess I&#8217;ll have to change the protection or something</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-224</guid>
		<description>How do we keep getting spammed? I work with a store clerk at my part-time job who couldn't answer the spam protection question without a calculator and yet still there's spam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do we keep getting spammed? I work with a store clerk at my part-time job who couldn&#8217;t answer the spam protection question without a calculator and yet still there&#8217;s spam.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-117</guid>
		<description>I think Clint's got it down about right.  The movie "Munich" does a great job of addressing the topic.  Granted, its a movie and its highly fictionalized and it has a message which means it has a bias.  That said, its still based on true events, and its pretty naive and well... stupid, to think that Israel is completely innocent in these matters.  Just because its white people fighting brown people doesn't mean right and wrong are so clear cut.  Our media obviously favors one side over the other, especially recently considering how showing any sort of sympathy to people who use suicide bombers would go against public opinion and government policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Clint&#8217;s got it down about right.  The movie &#8220;Munich&#8221; does a great job of addressing the topic.  Granted, its a movie and its highly fictionalized and it has a message which means it has a bias.  That said, its still based on true events, and its pretty naive and well&#8230; stupid, to think that Israel is completely innocent in these matters.  Just because its white people fighting brown people doesn&#8217;t mean right and wrong are so clear cut.  Our media obviously favors one side over the other, especially recently considering how showing any sort of sympathy to people who use suicide bombers would go against public opinion and government policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-113</guid>
		<description>Hamas is a (legitimately elected) political party that, like any other party, represents a political philosophy; not sure what you mean by that.  As far as negotiations, I don't accept the myth that Hamas/Fatah/Palestinians in general will not sit down and work something out; Hamas, for instance, has been open to hammering out a two-state solution.

I don't see much point in responding to the last two paragraphs, which blindly debase millions of people based on no evidence whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hamas is a (legitimately elected) political party that, like any other party, represents a political philosophy; not sure what you mean by that.  As far as negotiations, I don&#8217;t accept the myth that Hamas/Fatah/Palestinians in general will not sit down and work something out; Hamas, for instance, has been open to hammering out a two-state solution.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see much point in responding to the last two paragraphs, which blindly debase millions of people based on no evidence whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Who do you negotiate this cease-fire with? Hamas is not a political party -- it's a philosophy. Given that the destruction of Israel is a major cornerstone of that philosophy and their poor track record of negotiating in a practical world, I would love to hear who you think Israel could negotiate with successfully. 

And again, I find it hard to swallow that Israel is more at fault for the current predicament than those in Gaza themselves. Israel has been feeding and providing fuel to this area. Maybe if Gazans put as much effort into bettering their lives and having a stable group of folks in charge as they do into making suicide belts and shooting rockets, they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

Do I feel for the Palestinians? Yes, I really do. Their homes were taken away and that sucks for the ones that didn't go back after the founding of Israel because their property was appropriated. But you know what? There's no excuse to have this refugee mentality after at least two more generations. Just as with an individual, people may screw you and it not be your fault, but at the end of the day it's you yourself who has to take responsibilty for making your life better tomorrow than it was yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who do you negotiate this cease-fire with? Hamas is not a political party &#8212; it&#8217;s a philosophy. Given that the destruction of Israel is a major cornerstone of that philosophy and their poor track record of negotiating in a practical world, I would love to hear who you think Israel could negotiate with successfully. </p>
<p>And again, I find it hard to swallow that Israel is more at fault for the current predicament than those in Gaza themselves. Israel has been feeding and providing fuel to this area. Maybe if Gazans put as much effort into bettering their lives and having a stable group of folks in charge as they do into making suicide belts and shooting rockets, they wouldn&#8217;t be in this situation in the first place.</p>
<p>Do I feel for the Palestinians? Yes, I really do. Their homes were taken away and that sucks for the ones that didn&#8217;t go back after the founding of Israel because their property was appropriated. But you know what? There&#8217;s no excuse to have this refugee mentality after at least two more generations. Just as with an individual, people may screw you and it not be your fault, but at the end of the day it&#8217;s you yourself who has to take responsibilty for making your life better tomorrow than it was yesterday.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-109</guid>
		<description>Cameron,

Egypt ranks right behind Israel in getting the most US aid (not counting Iraq) and they apparently allow IDF to roam freely in their cities so I would expect them to fall into line and make a serious effort to close up the border pretty soon.  They have expressed reservations though about kicking them out; I believe it was Mubarak who said something like "Let the Palestinians eat.  They are starving."

I think the short-term solution is to end the blockade and negotiate a cease-fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cameron,</p>
<p>Egypt ranks right behind Israel in getting the most US aid (not counting Iraq) and they apparently allow IDF to roam freely in their cities so I would expect them to fall into line and make a serious effort to close up the border pretty soon.  They have expressed reservations though about kicking them out; I believe it was Mubarak who said something like &#8220;Let the Palestinians eat.  They are starving.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the short-term solution is to end the blockade and negotiate a cease-fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-108</guid>
		<description>Cameron,
Egypt can certainly share in some of the blame now that they are closing their border with Gaza.  However, Egypt doesn't have nearly as much responsibility for the fate of Palestinians.  The Egyptians didn't expel these people from their homes in the first place.  The Egyptians don't engage in regular military operations in the strip.  The Egyptians aren't blockading Gaza by sea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cameron,<br />
Egypt can certainly share in some of the blame now that they are closing their border with Gaza.  However, Egypt doesn&#8217;t have nearly as much responsibility for the fate of Palestinians.  The Egyptians didn&#8217;t expel these people from their homes in the first place.  The Egyptians don&#8217;t engage in regular military operations in the strip.  The Egyptians aren&#8217;t blockading Gaza by sea.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 23:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-107</guid>
		<description>Gaza isn't surrounded by Israel. And I saw that the Egyptians broke out the riot gear to keep the Palestinians in.

Again, I agree that it's a bad solution. But I don't see a better short-term fix. Israel is at least very consistent with their actions -- during lulls in violence they take it easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaza isn&#8217;t surrounded by Israel. And I saw that the Egyptians broke out the riot gear to keep the Palestinians in.</p>
<p>Again, I agree that it&#8217;s a bad solution. But I don&#8217;t see a better short-term fix. Israel is at least very consistent with their actions &#8212; during lulls in violence they take it easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-106</guid>
		<description>Chris,

I disagree that it's not significantly covered in the media -- it's been high on the NYT site the last several days, for instance.  The quality of the coverage is a different matter.

Cameron,

In short, I would have Israel abide by international law.  Starving Gaza will not improve Israel's security -- probably the opposite.

"And I imagine all the Israel-haters out there would be screaming bloody murder if Israel actually reoccupied Gaza as an alternative to a blockade."

They don't have to reoccupy it; it's already under military occupation.  And yes, critics of Israel would oppose that too as it's another inhumane option.

"Let’s also remember that this isn’t really a “blockade” per se, but the Israelis just aren’t feeding, clothing, and providing fuel for people who are trying to kill them."

The entire population of Gaza isn't trying to kill them.

"It’s ridiculous to expect Israel to keep supplying these things to a Hamas-run area that is actively trying to kill Israelis."

That's a rather convenient way to frame the argument.  Israel has made it so that they control the lifeline to Gaza.  If they don't want to provide the necessary supplies for the civilians there, fine, but they better knock down the walls and let them get supplies from somewhere else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I disagree that it&#8217;s not significantly covered in the media &#8212; it&#8217;s been high on the NYT site the last several days, for instance.  The quality of the coverage is a different matter.</p>
<p>Cameron,</p>
<p>In short, I would have Israel abide by international law.  Starving Gaza will not improve Israel&#8217;s security &#8212; probably the opposite.</p>
<p>&#8220;And I imagine all the Israel-haters out there would be screaming bloody murder if Israel actually reoccupied Gaza as an alternative to a blockade.&#8221;</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t have to reoccupy it; it&#8217;s already under military occupation.  And yes, critics of Israel would oppose that too as it&#8217;s another inhumane option.</p>
<p>&#8220;Let’s also remember that this isn’t really a “blockade” per se, but the Israelis just aren’t feeding, clothing, and providing fuel for people who are trying to kill them.&#8221;</p>
<p>The entire population of Gaza isn&#8217;t trying to kill them.</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s ridiculous to expect Israel to keep supplying these things to a Hamas-run area that is actively trying to kill Israelis.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a rather convenient way to frame the argument.  Israel has made it so that they control the lifeline to Gaza.  If they don&#8217;t want to provide the necessary supplies for the civilians there, fine, but they better knock down the walls and let them get supplies from somewhere else.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/2008/01/25/israel-a-rogue-nation/comment-page-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.whyweworry.com/blog/?p=35#comment-105</guid>
		<description>While I agree that the blockade of Gaza stinks, what exactly would you have Israel do? And don't give me the whole diplomacy stuff, blah blah blah. What would you do right NOW to stop your own citizens from getting rockets shot at them randomly? It is the duty of a government to look out after its own citizens. And I imagine all the Israel-haters out there would be screaming bloody murder if Israel actually reoccupied Gaza as an alternative to a blockade. 

Let's also remember that this isn't really a "blockade" per se, but the Israelis just aren't feeding, clothing, and providing fuel for people who are trying to kill them. Imagine if we were doing that for militants in Iraq. It's ridiculous to expect Israel to keep supplying these things to a Hamas-run area that is actively trying to kill Israelis. Honestly, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Try offering an alternative solution to their problem that doesn't unrealistically involve nicing Hamas to death.

And the Geneva conventions... Have you ever actually read them? I recommend it. Don't provide musical instruments? War crime. No sporting equipment? War crime. Don't pay prisoners for their time -- in advance (because you obviously know how long they'll be prisoners)? War crime. They're vegetarian and you feed them steak? War crime. Prisoners' barracks isn't as good or better than our own troops' barracks (gotta love pool tables and air conditioning)? War crime.

Yes, there's some important stuff in there, but just saying "so-and-so violated the Geneva conventions" doesn't mean a whole lot. It's really a lot better to say something like "the Israelis are using collective responsibility for the acts of a few, which is deplorable."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that the blockade of Gaza stinks, what exactly would you have Israel do? And don&#8217;t give me the whole diplomacy stuff, blah blah blah. What would you do right NOW to stop your own citizens from getting rockets shot at them randomly? It is the duty of a government to look out after its own citizens. And I imagine all the Israel-haters out there would be screaming bloody murder if Israel actually reoccupied Gaza as an alternative to a blockade. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s also remember that this isn&#8217;t really a &#8220;blockade&#8221; per se, but the Israelis just aren&#8217;t feeding, clothing, and providing fuel for people who are trying to kill them. Imagine if we were doing that for militants in Iraq. It&#8217;s ridiculous to expect Israel to keep supplying these things to a Hamas-run area that is actively trying to kill Israelis. Honestly, they&#8217;re stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Try offering an alternative solution to their problem that doesn&#8217;t unrealistically involve nicing Hamas to death.</p>
<p>And the Geneva conventions&#8230; Have you ever actually read them? I recommend it. Don&#8217;t provide musical instruments? War crime. No sporting equipment? War crime. Don&#8217;t pay prisoners for their time &#8212; in advance (because you obviously know how long they&#8217;ll be prisoners)? War crime. They&#8217;re vegetarian and you feed them steak? War crime. Prisoners&#8217; barracks isn&#8217;t as good or better than our own troops&#8217; barracks (gotta love pool tables and air conditioning)? War crime.</p>
<p>Yes, there&#8217;s some important stuff in there, but just saying &#8220;so-and-so violated the Geneva conventions&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean a whole lot. It&#8217;s really a lot better to say something like &#8220;the Israelis are using collective responsibility for the acts of a few, which is deplorable.&#8221;</p>
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